Gary
GaryVasco
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Post by Gary on Nov 12, 2015 8:28:37 GMT
Vasco, Here is a link to 18. I just looked at your solution, so I know where mine needs improvement. I tried to use (3) on p. 124, but I didn't think to take the absolute values of the steps. That was a nice part of the solution. I will probably rework mine with that in mind. dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/35393965/nh.ch4.ex18.pdfGary
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Vasco
GaryVasco
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Post by Vasco on Nov 12, 2015 10:55:15 GMT
Vasco, Here is a link to 18. I just looked at your solution, so I know where mine needs improvement. I tried to use (3) on p. 124, but I didn't think to take the absolute values of the steps. That was a nice part of the solution. I will probably rework mine with that in mind. dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/35393965/nh.ch4.ex18.pdfGary Gary
I have been studying your solution and although in part (i) I don't think there is any necessity to differentiate \(M(z)\) for reasons you can see in my solution, I think that the reason your differentiation doesn't really lead to showing that \(|M'|\) depends only on \(\rho\), is because you must remember that \(z\) here is not just any old \(z\). Remember that \(|z-q|=\rho\) where \(q=-d/c\) and so \(|cz+d|=|c|\rho\), (remember exercise 19 on page 186?), and so your \(|M'|\) becomes
\(|M'|=\frac{|ad-bc|}{|c|^2\rho^2}\).
This is also why your \(d\) does not disappear in part (iv). Incidentally, I don't think there is any need to introduce \(k\) here, just set \(ad-bc=1\).
Vasco
More comments to come about part (ii).
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Vasco
GaryVasco
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Post by Vasco on Nov 12, 2015 14:02:13 GMT
Vasco, Here is a link to 18. I just looked at your solution, so I know where mine needs improvement. I tried to use (3) on p. 124, but I didn't think to take the absolute values of the steps. That was a nice part of the solution. I will probably rework mine with that in mind. dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/35393965/nh.ch4.ex18.pdfGary Gary I like your answer to part (ii). The only thing that is missing, it seems to me, is a demonstration that when the shape at \(z\) is a long way from \(q\) the amplification is very small, and when the shape is near to \(q\) the amplification is very large, and so somewhere in between it must be 1. You could use your expression for the amplification from part (i), (even though not necessary to answer part (i)), to show this. As you have no doubt noticed your expression, when corrected, is identical to the one I derived in part (ii) using (3) on p. 124. Vasco
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Gary
GaryVasco
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Post by Gary on Nov 12, 2015 15:14:21 GMT
Vasco,
>Remember that |z−q|=ρ where q=−d/c and so |cz+d|=|c|ρ
I thought at the time that I had considered that, but I was thinking that the subtraction of -d/c returned q to 0. I should have reread the question. I woke up thinking that the erroneous M' must have something to do with that. It's good to know that it will work out if I do it properly. Thanks for that and the other comments.
Gary
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Post by Admin on Nov 12, 2015 15:25:51 GMT
Gary
In this special configuration the pre-image circles are centred at \(q=-d/c\) and so mapping (i) in (3) p. 124 transfers the circles so that they are centred at the origin, but initially the circles are described by \(|z+d/c|=\rho\).
Vasco
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Gary
GaryVasco
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Post by Gary on Nov 16, 2015 19:10:28 GMT
Vasco, I have added a figure to my answers to Chapter 18. The answer to (ii) is followed by a discussion of the figure. The plot appears to show that M(z) loses conformality in the neighborhood where \(\rho\) < 1. Möbius transformations are conformal, so I am wondering if I have a mistake, but right now I don't see it. dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/35393965/nh.ch4.ex18.pdfSourcecode available on request. I really need to catch up with postings on my web page. Gary
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Post by Admin on Nov 17, 2015 7:41:53 GMT
Gary
How do you calculate the image of the triangle? In what follows I am just guessing. If the three vertices of the pre-image triangle are $p,q,r$, are you calculating the image vertices as $M(p),M(q),M(r)$? If the answer is yes then it may explain what you are seeing in figure 1.
If you calculate the amplification($A$) and twist($\phi$) at a point $z$, then you should calculate the vertices of the image triangle as follows: Let $\epsilon_1$ be a vector emanating from $z$ (i.e, one of the sides of the pre-image triangle) then the image of $z+\epsilon_1$ is $M(z)+Ae^{i\phi}\epsilon_1$, not $M(z+\epsilon_1)$. If you calculate the vertices of the image triangle like this, then the angle between the sides would have to be the same as the angle between the corresponding sides of the pre-image triangle and conformality would be guaranteed!.
I think that what you are seeing in your figure 1 is the effect seen in figure 11 in subsection 3 Analytic Functions on pages 197-8 - all down to the fact that we are really dealing with infinitesimal shapes. Only guessing of course.
$M(z+\epsilon_1)=M(z)+\epsilon_1M'(z)+\epsilon_1M''(z)/2+...=M(z)+Ae^{i\phi}\epsilon_1+\epsilon_1^2M''(z)/2+...$ I suspect that $M(z+\epsilon_1)$ is not a good approximation to $M(z)+Ae^{i\phi}\epsilon_1$ when $\rho<1$.
Vasco
PS I'll have a look at the source code if you think it would help.
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Gary
GaryVasco
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Post by Gary on Nov 18, 2015 3:17:25 GMT
Vasco,
I have recalculated the plot according to your suggestion which I think is correct. You were right about the way I had calculated the amplitwist of the arrows. It is the same mistake I made in calculating the amplitude of \(z^2\) in an earlier problem.
I also realized that if there is twist on the infinitesimal images, there should also be twist on the infinitesimal arrows, so I included that.
The new plot and source code are at the same address.
I think there is a problem with question (ii). If the image is M(F), then, in most cases, it never travels to a point very close to q. If an image is to travel to a point close to q, then the image must be subject only to the amplification of z', which is 1. Hence, the image would be unchanged all distances from q, as we see in Figure 1 (blue triangles). Therefore, I think the question should read "By considering the image under M of an infinitesimal shape with a preimage that starts far from q and then travels to a point very close to q, deduce that at some point in the journey, the image and preimage are congruent."
Gary
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Post by Admin on Nov 18, 2015 8:09:08 GMT
Gary
I agree that part (ii) of question 18 on page 213 is open to more than one interpretation in terms of what it is asking you to do. When I did the problem for the first time, well over a year ago even though I only published it recently, I don't remember struggling with the meaning of (ii). Looking at it again now I can see how it could be misinterpreted. What follows is not meant to be a way to rewrite the exercise, but more of an explanation of what I thought, and still think, Needham is asking:
"An infinitesimal shape moves around on the complex plane. Imagine that it starts off by being placed at a point far away from $q$, and then moves to a point very close to $q$. Because of part (i) we can see that as it moves on this path it initially lies on a circle with a very large radius, centred at $q$, and at the end of its journey it ends up lying on a circle with a very small radius, centred at $q$. We can calculate its image under $M$ at any point on this journey and this image will lie on the corresponding image circle. We need to show that when the infinitesimal pre-image shape is at a large distance from $q$ the size of the image shape under $M$ is very small (approaching zero) and that when the pre-image shape is very close to $q$ the size of the image shape is very large, and that therefore when the pre-image shape is travelling, it will, at some point, find itself at a point where it and its image are congruent. At all other points they are similar."
Does the above correspond with your interpretation of the the exercise?
If you agree that the above is a valid interpretation of what Needham is asking, I will rewrite part (ii) to reflect this and try to make it less open to interpretation, and then if you are happy with my rewording we can post it in the errata section, but more as a clarification than a real error.
Vasco
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Post by Admin on Nov 18, 2015 8:22:08 GMT
Gary
I would suggest a re-phrasing of part (ii) along these lines:
"An infinitesimal shape starts far from $q$ and then travels to a point very close to $q$. By considering its image under $M$, deduce that at some point in the journey the image and pre-image are congruent."
Vasco
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Gary
GaryVasco
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Post by Gary on Nov 18, 2015 17:28:24 GMT
Vasco,
I agree with your rephrasing. It is brief and clear. I also agree with the discussion paragraph.
I have corrected my calculations of twist in Figure 1. The plot now looks more like what I expected it to look like, though that was not my motive for the correction. I found the twist was a little more difficult to understand and calculate than the amplification, as it seems necessary to include z in the denominator of M'(z), which means calculation of \(\rho\) and the selection of an appropriate \(\theta\).
Gary
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Vasco
GaryVasco
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Post by Vasco on Nov 19, 2015 8:58:03 GMT
Gary
I found a typo in your solution to 18. In part (i) the first line of the calculation of $M'(z)$ needs a dash (for differentiation) at the end.
Vasco
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Gary
GaryVasco
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Post by Gary on Nov 19, 2015 9:03:31 GMT
Vasco, I am still tussling with 4:18. I'm finding it tricky to get a sensible application of twist. I calculated twist as arg(M'(z)) and used it in the formula for amplitwist \(f'(z) = |f'(z)|e^{i arg(f'(z))}\), but it's not working out well. The twist should then be \(arg(M'(z)) = arg((ad-bc)/(cz+d)^2)\). I noticed in your diagram that the \(\epsilon\) arrow for M(z) shows a twist of Pi, so that it points directly back to a/c. Mine don't. I am wondering how one gets that out of (3) on p. 124 or out of M'. I know that in (3), you see the minus sign on (1/z)', and that (1/z) is a factor in step (iii), so perhaps letting \(p = (ad-bc)/c^2\) we could take (p/z)' and get \(0*1/z + p(-1/z^2) = -(ad-bc)/(c^2 z^2)\). I just tried it and it straightens out the arrows, but they point away from the center rather than towards it. The effect on the small vectors is conformal. I have reached a little better understanding of the effect of amplification on the \(\epsilon\) vectors. In the figure, I used numbers to indicate the order of amplification as \(\rho\) decreases. dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/35393965/nh.ch4.ex18.pdfGary
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Gary
GaryVasco
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Post by Gary on Nov 19, 2015 9:22:30 GMT
Gary I found a typo in your solution to 18. In part (i) the first line of the calculation of $M'(z)$ needs a dash (for differentiation) at the end. Vasco Noted and fixed. Thank you. I have been making edits on 4:18 almost up to the moment.
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Vasco
GaryVasco
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Post by Vasco on Nov 19, 2015 20:29:15 GMT
Vasco, I am still tussling with 4:18. I'm finding it tricky to get a sensible application of twist. I calculated twist as arg(M'(z)) and used it in the formula for amplitwist \(f'(z) = |f'(z)|e^{i arg(f'(z))}\), but it's not working out well. The twist should then be \(arg(M'(z)) = arg((ad-bc)/(cz+d)^2)\). I noticed in your diagram that the \(\epsilon\) arrow for M(z) shows a twist of Pi, so that it points directly back to a/c. Mine don't. I am wondering how one gets that out of (3) on p. 124 or out of M'. I know that in (3), you see the minus sign on (1/z)', and that (1/z) is a factor in step (iii), so perhaps letting \(p = (ad-bc)/c^2\) we could take (p/z)' and get \(0*1/z + p(-1/z^2) = -(ad-bc)/(c^2 z^2)\). I just tried it and it straightens out the arrows, but they point away from the center rather than towards it. The effect on the small vectors is conformal. I have reached a little better understanding of the effect of amplification on the \(\epsilon\) vectors. In the figure, I used numbers to indicate the order of amplification as \(\rho\) decreases. dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/35393965/nh.ch4.ex18.pdfGary Gary My diagram shows a relative rotation of the infinitesimal arrows equal to $\pm\pi$, but the twist is something different. This is easy to see if you draw the radius vector and infinitesimal arrow from the left hand diagram on the right hand diagram. It should then be easy to see that the infinitesimal arrow is not twisted through $\pm\pi$. You can see this easily from (3) on p. 124: mapping (ii) rotates the radius vector through $-2\theta$ and the infinitesimal arrow through $-2\theta\pm\pi$. and, as is explained on page 199 under figure 12, mapping (iii) rotates the radius vector and the infinitesimal arrow through the same angle $\alpha$. So the arrow rotates with the radius vector apart from the extra rotation of $\pm\pi$. Vasco PS your green arrows are pointing towards the centre!
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