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Post by Admin on Mar 29, 2017 12:19:54 GMT
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Gary
GaryVasco
Posts: 3,352
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Post by Gary on Apr 12, 2017 20:58:31 GMT
Vasco, Here is my attempt at 8. nh.ch7.ex8.pdf (133.71 KB) (rewritten) Gary
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Post by Admin on Apr 13, 2017 16:20:40 GMT
Gary
You seem to have used $\mathcal{R}$ throughout, but Needham has $\mathcal{R}$ and $R$, two different quantities.
Vasco
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Gary
GaryVasco
Posts: 3,352
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Post by Gary on Apr 13, 2017 17:09:11 GMT
Gary You seem to have used $\mathcal{R}$ throughout, but Needham has $\mathcal{R}$ and $R$, two different quantities. Vasco Vasco, I noticed the difference, but in my answer they are actually the same quantity in that $iR$ is an exponent of e, and so $R = y$ induces the rotation $\mathcal{R}$ as a multiple of y, so I wasn't sure that Needham intended them to be different. I will fix the the $R$'s. I still need to read your answer. Gary
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Post by Admin on Apr 14, 2017 16:10:37 GMT
Gary
I don't understand in your document why you say let $s=|y|e^{yi}$. If $s=x+iy$ and you are travelling up the $y$-axis, then $s=iy$ since $x=0$.
Vasco
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Gary
GaryVasco
Posts: 3,352
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Post by Gary on Apr 14, 2017 16:52:24 GMT
Gary I don't understand in your document why you say let $s=|y|e^{yi}$. If $s=x+iy$ and you are travelling up the $y$-axis, then $s=iy$ since $x=0$. Vasco Vasco, That looks like a problem that I should have allowed to sit on the shelf for a day or two before posting. I will revisit it and repost as soon as possible. Gary
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Gary
GaryVasco
Posts: 3,352
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Post by Gary on Apr 18, 2017 2:45:40 GMT
Vasco,
I confess I didn't understand your answer when I read it last week, nor did I really understand my own. I worked on it some more over the weekend and I suspect it now resembles yours, though I haven't looked back yet. I reposted.
Gary
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Post by Admin on Apr 18, 2017 15:00:43 GMT
Gary
While reading your solution to exercise 8 and re-reading my own, I realised that there were a couple of typos on page 2 where I talked about the winding number of $F(\Gamma)$ about $c_0$ when it should really be about $0$.
I have corrected this and republished.
I am still reading your solution, but I noticed that in your diagram the black dots denoting the roots of $F(s)$ which are complex do not have a complex conjugate root indicated on the diagram.
Vasco
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Gary
GaryVasco
Posts: 3,352
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Post by Gary on Apr 18, 2017 15:06:45 GMT
Gary While reading your solution to exercise 8 and re-reading my own, I realised that there were a couple of typos on page 2 where I talked about the winding number of $F(\Gamma)$ about $c_0$ when it should really be about $0$. I have corrected this and republished. I am still reading your solution, but I noticed that in your diagram the black dots denoting the roots of $F(s)$ which are complex do not have a complex conjugate root indicated on the diagram. Vasco Vasco, I'll look for some conjugates. I'll have to add a line or two of code, as the dots are plotted randomly. I can think of a couple of other things that would clarify my answer. Gary
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Post by Admin on Apr 18, 2017 15:11:01 GMT
Gary While reading your solution to exercise 8 and re-reading my own, I realised that there were a couple of typos on page 2 where I talked about the winding number of $F(\Gamma)$ about $c_0$ when it should really be about $0$. I have corrected this and republished. I am still reading your solution, but I noticed that in your diagram the black dots denoting the roots of $F(s)$ which are complex do not have a complex conjugate root indicated on the diagram. Vasco Vasco, I'll look for some conjugates. I'll have to add a line or two of code, as the dots are plotted randomly. I can think of a couple of other things that would clarify my answer. Gary Gary The way I interpret the hint is that Needham is suggesting we apply the Argument principle to $\Gamma$ when $R$ the radius of the semicircle is finite, and then let $R$ tend to infinity. Vasco
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Post by Admin on Apr 18, 2017 15:36:46 GMT
Gary
Just plot a dot at $x-iy$ as well as at $x+iy$.
Vasco
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Gary
GaryVasco
Posts: 3,352
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Post by Gary on Apr 18, 2017 15:41:36 GMT
Gary Just plot a dot at $x-iy$ as well as at $x+iy$. Vasco Vasco, It was just a figure of speech. It was actually only one line of code. I also added a bit more explanation of why the DE dies away. Gary
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Post by Admin on Apr 19, 2017 14:57:52 GMT
Gary
I think that I have found a mistake in my published solution to this exercise. My corrected solution produces the following expression for $\mathcal{R}$
$\mathcal{R}=(2m-n)\pi$ where $m$ is the number of roots when Re$[s_j]<0$. When $m=n$ then $\mathcal{R}=n\pi$ as required, and when $m=0$ then $\mathcal{R}=-n\pi$ which is what I would expect. My current solution only gives a sensible answer when $m=n$.
I will rewrite and publish as soon as I can.
Vasco
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Gary
GaryVasco
Posts: 3,352
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Post by Gary on Apr 19, 2017 16:12:20 GMT
Gary I think that I have found a mistake in my published solution to this exercise. My corrected solution produces the following expression for $\mathcal{R}$ $\mathcal{R}=(2m-n)\pi$ where $m$ is the number of roots when Re$[s_j]<0$. When $m=n$ then $\mathcal{R}=n\pi$ as required, and when $m=0$ then $\mathcal{R}=-n\pi$ which is what I would expect. My current solution only gives a sensible answer when $m=n$. I will rewrite and publish as soon as I can. Vasco Vasco, Here is my view of it: The total winding angle for each p-point should depend in part on where a wind begins. I read the hint to mean that one first traverses the segment $-iR$ to $iR$, which winds by an angle of $\pi$ around every p-point and winds $n\pi$ around 0 in the image, but only if Re(s) < 0 for every p-point. Even the first traversal produces this winding. A non- or null-traversal would give 0 winding, but an initial angle of $-\frac{\pi}{2}$. If one adopts an initial starting point for z of 1, the initial angle is different for every p-point. If one adopts an initial starting angle of 0, as in [8], then the full traversal of the segment $-iR$ to $iR$ is split into two segments and is not completed until $z$ has completed a traversal of $\Gamma$. But no matter where one begins the traversal, the winding $nu[F(s), 0]$ resulting from one traversal of the segment $-iR$ to $iR$ is just $n\pi$, but only if Re(s) < 0 for all s. Only the degree of decay depends on the total number of traversals, but I don't think we have to take the number of traversals into account. Rereading my comment, I see that it probably didn't respond very well to your posting, but I don't see the need to count external and internal points, since by construction all the internal points have Re(s) < 0, only internal points are p-points, traversal of the segment on the imaginary axis produces winds in the image only for the p-points, and Q(t) decays only if all Re(s) < 0. Given that Q(t) dies away, then Re(s) < 0 for all roots, all roots are p-points, and it follows that one traversal of the segment $-iR$ to $iR$ produces one winding $\mathcal{R}$ equaling the number of p-points times $\pi$. Gary
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Post by Admin on Apr 20, 2017 14:41:15 GMT
Gary
I think all we can say when $R$ is finite is that the complete trip round the closed loop $\Gamma$ results in $F(s)$ going round $0$ $m$ times or a rotation of $2m\pi$ where $m$ is the number of roots inside $\Gamma$.
Vasco
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