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Post by evsikman on Sept 8, 2018 19:45:59 GMT
Hello Vasco, I read your solution of this exercise and didn't understand one point. I also read all your discussions with Gary about this exercise and didn't find satisfied explanation. So the point where I stopped is in the 4 th paragraph of your solution VCA6-03.pdf (105.6 KB): "...passing through z^ and P v(z^) and orthogonal to C^...". You don't mention why the circles G^ and J^ are orthogonal to C^. I also read your CommentaryChapter6Ex3.pdf (14.84 KB)and don't understand you in 6. You write: "This is because lines through v to the intersection points of the circles with the arbitrary circle, are tangents to the circles and orthogonal to the arbitrary circle". I know that under "arbitrary circle" you mean C^. But why do you think that lines through v to the intersection points of the circles with C^ are tangents to the circles? I would like to discuss you solution and then suggest mine. Thanks and sorry that I cannot use BBCode to write better. evsikman
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Post by Admin on Sept 9, 2018 6:03:16 GMT
Hello Vasco, I read your solution of this exercise and didn't understand one point. I also read all your discussions with Gary about this exercise and didn't find satisfied explanation. So the point where I stopped is in the 4 th paragraph of your solution View Attachment: "...passing through z^ and P v(z^) and orthogonal to C^...". You don't mention why the circles G^ and J^ are orthogonal to C^. I also read your View Attachmentand don't understand you in 6. You write: "This is because lines through v to the intersection points of the circles with the arbitrary circle, are tangents to the circles and orthogonal to the arbitrary circle". I know that under "arbitrary circle" you mean C^. But why do you think that lines through v to the intersection points of the circles with C^ are tangents to the circles? I would like to discuss you solution and then suggest mine. Thanks and sorry that I cannot use BBCode to write better. evsikman evsikman I will take a look and get back to you. Vasco
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Post by Admin on Sept 9, 2018 11:26:39 GMT
evsikman
Below is an explanation to demonstrate why the circles $\widehat{G}$ and $\widehat{J}$ are orthogonal $\widehat{C}$.
Think of any plane $\mathbb{P}$, which contains the points $v$ and $\widehat{z}$. and the circle $\widehat{J}$. On the cone with apex $v$ and base $\widehat{C}$, the line from $v$ through any of the two points where $\widehat{J}$ intersects $\widehat{C}$ is orthogonal to $\widehat{C}$ and lies in the plane $\mathbb{P}$. The fact that the cone only touches $\Sigma$ means that this line must also be tangent to $\widehat{J}$, and so it follows that $\widehat{C}$ and $\widehat{J}$ intersect at right angles. A similar argument shows that this is also true for $\widehat{C}$ and $\widehat{G}$.
If you have any questions about the above explanation please ask.
Vasco
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Post by evsikman on Sept 9, 2018 12:29:52 GMT
You write "The fact that the cone only touches Σ means that this line must also be tangent to J^". Why is it so? Does it follow *only* out of the fact that "the cone only touches Σ"? If so, I disagree.
I also don't understand the role of the plane P in the explanation.
evsikman
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Post by Admin on Sept 9, 2018 14:44:03 GMT
evsikman
Sorry I didn't make it clear enough in my last post. Here is another attempt:
The points 6a to 6e below are meant to replace point 6 in my original commentary.
6a. Let's define the plane $\mathbb{P}$ as that which is defined by the 3 non-collinear points $v$, $\widehat{z}$ and one of the points of intersection of $\widehat{J}$ with $\widehat{C}$. Let's call this point $\widehat{q}$.
6b. The circle $\widehat{J}$ lies in this plane $\mathbb{P}$, and the line $M$ from $v$ to $\widehat{q}$ also lies in the same plane and is part of the cone $K$.
6c. Because the line $M$ lies on the cone it must be orthogonal to $\widehat{C}$, since this circle is the base of $K$. i.e. the angle between $M$ and the tangent to $\widehat{C}$ at $\widehat{q}$ is $\pi/2$.
6d. The fact that the cone only touches $\Sigma$ together with the result in 6c., means that $M$ must be tangent to $\widehat{J}$, and so it follows that $\widehat{C}$ and $\widehat{J}$ are orthogonal.
6e. A similar argument shows that this is also true for $\widehat{C}$ and $\widehat{G}$.
Vasco
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Post by evsikman on Sept 9, 2018 15:30:52 GMT
In 6d. you write "The fact that the cone only touches Σ together with the result in 6c., means that M must be tangent to J^". 6c. states "M is orthogonal to C^". I don't see how 6c. can affect the angle between C^ and J^ in any way.
If it doesn't, then we have only "the fact that the cone only touches Σ", which is not sufficient for orthogonality of C^ and J^ as I mentoned in my last post.
evsikman
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Post by Admin on Sept 9, 2018 15:46:28 GMT
evsikman
In 6c we have that the angle between $M$ and the tangent to $\widehat{C}$ at $\widehat{q}$ is $\pi/2$. 6d tells us that $M$ is tangent to $\widehat{J}$ at the same point $\widehat{q}$ So if $M$ is tangent to $\widehat{J}$ at $\widehat{q}$, and orthogonal to $\widehat{C}$ at $\widehat{q}$, then $\widehat{J}$ and $\widehat{C}$ must be orthogonal. All this is in 3 dimensions of course. I'm not saying that the result 6c. affects the angle between C^ and J^ in any way, all I'm saying is that if a line is tangent to a curve and orthogonal to another curve then the two curves must be orthogonal.
Vasco
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Post by evsikman on Sept 9, 2018 16:01:47 GMT
I understand everything except the point 6d. I just don't see why J^ is tangent to M, as I described in my previous post.
I can clearly imagine a situation where M is orthogonal to C^ and at the same time M intersects J^ in two points. With other words, a situation where 6c. holds and 6d. doesn't.
Do you know what I mean or should I explain it with pictures?
evsikman
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Post by Admin on Sept 9, 2018 16:07:30 GMT
evsikman
I don't understand your difficulty. M must be tangent to $\widehat{J}$. Please explain in pictures. Thanks
Vasco
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Post by Admin on Sept 9, 2018 16:14:15 GMT
evsikman
Since the cone only touches $\Sigma$ on $\widehat{C}$ it's not possible for $M$ to intersect $\widehat{C}$, it can only be tangent to it, because $M$ lies on the cone.
Vasco
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Post by evsikman on Sept 9, 2018 16:48:18 GMT
Yes, I finally understand it! I thought about two options, in one of them I forgot about C^ and M lying in one plane, in the other - about only one point of contact between Σ and the cone, as you pointed out. Now all is clear.
Thank you!
evsikman
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Post by Admin on Sept 9, 2018 16:55:01 GMT
evsikman
No problem, I'm glad you got there in the end.
Vasco
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Post by evsikman on Sept 9, 2018 17:46:44 GMT
Would you like to write a more detailed explanation of orthogonality of C^ and J^ in your solution ? By the way, could you add a link to the forum in chapter 6 , as you did with other chapters? Thanks. evsikman
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Post by Admin on Sept 9, 2018 19:53:17 GMT
evsikman
Yes, I will certainly add more detail to my published answer. I have added the link back to the forum as you requested.
Vasco
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Post by Admin on Sept 13, 2018 14:12:16 GMT
Hi evsikman
I have changed the document which contains the answer to this exercise. I have not changed the solution, but at the end of the document I have included the original commentary with the extra details in stage 6, as in our discussion above.
Vasco
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