|
Post by Admin on Feb 7, 2020 9:07:39 GMT
I have changed my answer to exercise 28 part (iv) to a more straightforward approach (calculus-free). My original answer to part (iv) is still OK but I consider my new answer to be more appropriate to chapter 1 and is in the spirit of part (iii) in that it is calculus-free. Vasco/Admin PS If you are interested in the original answer then here is a link to it
|
|
Gary
GaryVasco
Posts: 3,352
|
Post by Gary on Feb 7, 2020 18:11:58 GMT
I have changed my answer to exercise 28 part (iv) to a more straightforward approach (calculus-free). My original answer to part (iv) is still OK but I consider my new answer to be more appropriate to chapter 1 and is in the spirit of part (iii) in that it is calculus-free. Vasco/Admin PS If you are interested in the original answer then here is a link to itVasco,
I have posted my answer to 28. I have an appointment, but I will look at your answer later today.
Gary
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Feb 7, 2020 20:11:59 GMT
Gary
If a spiral is translated it can't be invariant can it? It has moved.
Vasco
|
|
Gary
GaryVasco
Posts: 3,352
|
Post by Gary on Feb 7, 2020 22:26:34 GMT
Gary If a spiral is translated it can't be invariant can it? It has moved. Vasco Vasco,
But can't one say the same if it is rotated? The red spiral below rotates the black spiral by Pi/16.
Gary
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Feb 7, 2020 22:47:06 GMT
Gary
I see what you mean, but more precisely what it means is that if you draw a picture of the curve before and after, on transparent paper, and put one on top of the other so that the origins coincide, then the curve on top coincides with the one underneath as a curve, not necessarily point by point, but a point on one curve corresponds to a point on the other curve under the transformation.
Vasco
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Feb 7, 2020 23:12:19 GMT
Gary
In your graph your rotated spiral formula doesn't seem right. It should be $e^{i\alpha t}(e^{at}e^{ibt})=e^{at}e^{i(\alpha+b)t}$ - the same spiral.
Vasco
]
|
|
Gary
GaryVasco
Posts: 3,352
|
Post by Gary on Feb 8, 2020 1:03:35 GMT
Gary In your graph your rotated spiral formula doesn't seem right. It should be $e^{i\alpha t}(e^{at}e^{ibt})=e^{at}e^{i(\alpha+b)t}$ - the same spiral. Vasco ] Vasco,
But he says "an arbitrary angle", so $\mathcal{R} = e^{iat}$ is only one of an infinite number of possibilities. In any event, the points of my spiral were in a list called, say SPIRAL, and the program is just $REDSPIRAL = SPIRAL\ e^{i\theta}$, where $\theta = \pi/16$. This rotates every point in the list about the origin. I could add the angle into the exponent as you did, but the notation gets a little clumsy for $Z[\tau + t] e^{i\theta}$ and you lose the insight that you are rotating an invariant transformation.
Gary
|
|
Gary
GaryVasco
Posts: 3,352
|
Post by Gary on Feb 8, 2020 1:19:24 GMT
Gary I see what you mean, but more precisely what it means is that if you draw a picture of the curve before and after, on transparent paper, and put one on top of the other so that the origins coincide, then the curve on top coincides with the one underneath as a curve, not necessarily point by point, but a point on one curve corresponds to a point on the other curve under the transformation. Vasco Vasco,
With reflections and rotations, it will still be the case that points of the image correspond the points of the original under transformation. If the criterion must be that the origins of the spirals coincide, wouldn't it be better to speak of that as rotational symmetry rather than invariance?
Gary
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Feb 8, 2020 7:37:48 GMT
Gary In your graph your rotated spiral formula doesn't seem right. It should be $e^{i\alpha t}(e^{at}e^{ibt})=e^{at}e^{i(\alpha+b)t}$ - the same spiral. Vasco ] Gary Sorry, I meant to write "In your graph your rotated spiral formula doesn't seem right. It should be $e^{i\alpha}(e^{at}e^{ibt})=e^{at}e^{i(\alpha+bt)}$". rather than what I wrote in my post above. Vasco
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Feb 8, 2020 8:58:01 GMT
Gary
In part (1) we show that the spiral is an invariant curve of $\mathcal{F}_{\tau}$
In part (iii) we show that if we rotate the original spiral about the origin through an arbitrary angle then the new spiral is also an invariant curve of $\mathcal{F}_{\tau}$.
In part (iv) we show that the spirals in part (iii) are the only invariant curves of $\mathcal{F}_{\tau}$.
If we wanted to find a counter example we wouldn't change the nature of $\mathcal{F}_{\tau}$ but rather the nature of the curve we applied $\mathcal{F}_{\tau}$ to, in order to show that these curves were also invariant curves of $\mathcal{F}_{\tau}$.
So we would have to apply $\mathcal{F}_{\tau}$ to a $W(t)$ of the form $Z(t)+v$ where $v$ is the translation, and show that
$\mathcal{F}_{\tau}[W(t)]=\mathcal{F}_{\tau}[Z(t)+v]\rightarrow W(t+\tau)$.
If you work this through it becomes
$\mathcal{F}_{\tau}[W(t)]=W(t+\tau)+v(e^{a\tau}e^{ib\tau}-1)$
which shows that this $W$ is not an invariant curve of $\mathcal{F}_{\tau}$
Similarly, if $W(t)=\overline{Z(t)}$ then we can show that this $W$ is also not an invariant curve of $\mathcal{F}_{\tau}$.
In your answer to part (iii) you say that certain things in the exercise are not entirely clear. When Needham says 'the spiral' I think he must mean as defined in the intro to the exercise.
Vasco
|
|
Gary
GaryVasco
Posts: 3,352
|
Post by Gary on Feb 8, 2020 18:00:18 GMT
Vasco,
Thank you for the explanation. I think my new post anticipates all of your points. It just took me some time to realize what it was that Needham was asking.
Gary
|
|
Gary
GaryVasco
Posts: 3,352
|
Post by Gary on Feb 8, 2020 18:02:42 GMT
Vasco,
I notice that my new posting retains my former disagreement. I will remove that paragraph.
Gary
|
|
Gary
GaryVasco
Posts: 3,352
|
Post by Gary on Feb 8, 2020 22:28:21 GMT
Vasco,
I made a few edits to the plot and to part (ii).
Gary
|
|