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Post by mondo on Jul 9, 2022 2:28:32 GMT
Hi,
I don't see why in equation 13 at page 483 we have $i\partial_x H$. If I add up elements from preceding two questions, combining partial derivatives for $x$ and $y$ I have $\partial_x u - \partial_x v -\partial_y u - \partial_y v)$ the second part is fine (agrees with equation 13) that is $-(\partial_y v + \partial_y u) = -\partial_y H$. However for the first part I get $\partial_x u - \partial_x v = \partial_x \bar{H}$ in contrast to $i\partial_x H$ in eq. 13. So what do I miss here? Conjugate is not the same operation as multiplication by $i$.
I have edited this to use the correct symbol for partial differentiation - Vasco 9th July 2022 at 20:22 GMT
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Post by Admin on Jul 9, 2022 19:56:09 GMT
Mondo
You can't just add them all together like that. You can see that in (13) the divergence is multiplied by $i$ (which you didn't do). So if you want to obtain the LHS of (13) you must do this: RHS of (13) $=-(\partial_xv+\partial_yu)+i(\partial_xu-\partial_yv)=i(\partial_xu+i\partial_xv)-(\partial_yu+i\partial_yv)=i\partial_xH-\partial_yH=$ LHS of 13.
Vasco
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Post by mondo on Jul 10, 2022 7:38:26 GMT
Yes, I overlooked that. Thank you.
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Post by mondo on Jul 8, 2023 6:25:10 GMT
I have one more question in regards to equation (13) - on the LHS we do have partial derivatives calculated in regards to $H$ while on the RHS in regards to $\overline{H}$ is that because when we do $\nabla \cdot \overline{H} = \partial_{x}u - \partial_{y}v$ we can interpret it as an addition of a vector with inverted sign and this is just $\overline{H}$ as I show here? (On my figure $u=X; v=Y$ Thank you.
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Post by Admin on Jul 8, 2023 9:30:10 GMT
Mondo
No that doesn't seem right to me.
I would do it like this:
Since $H=u+iv$ it follows that
$\partial_xH=\partial_xu+i\partial_xv$ and $\partial_yH=\partial_yu+i\partial_yv$
Substituting into the left hand side of (13) we have
$i\partial_xH-\partial_yH=i(\partial_xu+i\partial_xv)-(\partial_yu+i\partial_yv)=i\partial_xu-\partial_xv-\partial_yu-i\partial_yv$
Rearranging this we obtain
$i\partial_xH-\partial_yH=-(\partial_xv+\partial_yu)+i(\partial_xu-\partial_yv)$
Substituting using the two equations just before (13) we find that
$i\partial_xH-\partial_yH=\boldsymbol{\nabla\times \overline{H}}+i\text{ }\boldsymbol{\nabla\cdot \overline{H}}$
which is the right hand side of (13).
Vasco
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Post by Admin on Jul 8, 2023 11:00:17 GMT
Mondo
Just updated reply #4 above to correct two typos on the last algebraic line above in reply #4. I had missed out the overlines/bars.
Vasco
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Post by mondo on Jul 8, 2023 20:08:45 GMT
Vasco, thank you. That of course is correct. What I wanted to show in my post, is that we can also get it by gematrical/visual means. Let's take $i(\partial_x{u} - \partial_y{v})$, $u$ and $v$ are projections of vector field $H$ on real and imaginary axis respectively. If you look at my diagram in reply #3 we can see that addition of these two gives $H$ while substitution gives $\overline{H}$. I think it is correct too.
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Post by Admin on Jul 8, 2023 21:01:13 GMT
Mondo
I do not understand your argument. Can you please explain it in more detail? Thanks
Vasco
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Post by mondo on Jul 8, 2023 22:46:42 GMT
Sure, I have prepared a more clear diagram: So my point is $u + v = H$ hence $i(\partial_x{u}+ \partial_y{v}) = i\nabla \cdot H$. However if we do $u - v = \overline{H}$ and hence $i(\partial_x{u}- \partial_y{v}) = i\nabla \cdot \overline{H}$ Does it make sense to you?
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Post by Admin on Jul 8, 2023 23:00:37 GMT
Mondo
No it makes no sense at all to me. $H$ is a vector so how can it be equal to $u+v$?
Vasco
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Post by mondo on Jul 8, 2023 23:13:01 GMT
From vector addition. $u$ and $v$ are projections of $H$ on a real and imaginary axis.
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Post by Admin on Jul 8, 2023 23:25:21 GMT
Mondo
That's not vector addition. $u$ and $v$ are both scalars so that's scalar addition
Vasco
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Post by mondo on Jul 8, 2023 23:55:09 GMT
Mondo That's not vector addition. $u$ and $v$ are both scalars so that's scalar addition Vasco If $u$ and $v$ are both scalars then $H(z) = u + iv$ should also be a scalar. Ok, that's the defining property of a complex number so this is not true. However, if they were scalars then $\partial_x{u}$ would always be $0$. Likewise partials in regards to $y$. I agree with you that saying $u + v$ is a vector addition is not true but we can treat them as such by defining $u = [x,0]$ and $v = [0,y]$ now my addition makes sense.
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Post by Admin on Jul 9, 2023 6:07:42 GMT
Mondo
If $u$ and $v$ were scalars it's completely untrue to say that $\partial_xu$ would always be zero
If you write $u=[x,0]$ etc then they are vectors. So which is it? Vectors or scalars?
Vasco
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Post by Admin on Jul 9, 2023 6:29:41 GMT
Mondo
You have to come up with a proof of (13) on page 483.
Vasco
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